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Thread: New tank design with ATS in mind

  1. #21
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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    Yes that's the design I was thinking. The glass boxes don't have to be all the way up like that; they only need to catch the water at the bottom... maybe 3 or 4" deep. So you just disconnect a union at the pipe, lift up and pull out. And you could put only one hole in each box; then for backup, set the whole scrubber in a plastic bin that drains to the sump.

  2. #22

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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    400 gal = 1500 l, so that sounds just right, I had read that the durso standpipes at 1.5" with 1.5" bulkheads can cope with 1500l/hour.
    Thanks!
    Next problem is a UK unique problem...
    Fish tank equipment almost exclusively comes from Europe, so tank bulkheads are all in metric, as are the pipes, e.g. 40mm instead of 1.5". Which means the pipes don't quite fit properly unless you get metric pipes too.
    It appears none of the local plumbing merchants have any bulkheads, they all have tank connectors, which allow a pipe to go into the tank, but not to put another pipe on the other side.
    I think I'm going to have to order all the pipes and connectors online, in metric, but at least they have the external measurements of the bulkheads so I can order the tank with the right size holes.

  3. #23
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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    Oh, hey, I've got it! You're struggling with the issue of vertical constraints. Your last picture is crazy cumbersome. It also reeks havoc with your under tank cupboard space.

    Make your screen sloped slightly or horizontal. If it is flat horizontal you can deliver the water straight onto the center. and the screen will be uniformly awash. Shine the light on from the top. (One sided) This could cover most of the top of your sump.

    Alternatively you can slope it at, say, ten degrees. Have the water hit it on the left in your first sketch. It then washes down to the right end of your sump. The sump flows to the left where the return pump picks it up and sends it back up to the tank.

    I'd just use a piece of some sort of plastic, you'd want three sides on it. One on the left and two down the sides so the water is diked on it and only falls off the right end. They wouldn't have to be much. Maybe an inch or two. These three sides would lend stiffness to the entire thing. You could arange it so the you just pull it out sideways like a drawer, sort of. The overflow could then just fall onto the left end of the sump or I'd shut off the pump, and and once flow has stopped pull the screen for service. This would be trivial to make from acrylic. Or you might find some consumer device that would work, perhaps a TV tray that you cut one end off of.

    You could then use any number of light types. Spots or long linear tubes.

  4. #24

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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    Genius! Well thought, I just did some quick calculations...
    The current design would give 2 screens that are 10" wide by 12" long, giving 120 square inches on each side, so 480 square inches

    Now, the cabinet has space for a 24" tank that is 20" front to back and 15" high with pleny of room to get in (6"). That gives enough room for a 20"x24" screen on a slope and, guess what? that's 480 square inches of lit screen (or equivilant to 240 square inches lit from both sides).
    Same area, much more room to work in, easier to maintain, less piping, can remove the screen and still have the water running, plus still have useable space in the sump.

    I was about to post another minor change to the previous design, that involves having the side of the ATS that was covered in glass taken down to just 4" off the bottom and the top piece that was cut could be clamped on to the glass and removed and the screen pulled out when needed.
    However, the sloped screen idea (I am awear others have tried it), solves so many issues!
    Thanks, I'm all overjoyed now! :lol:

    I guess my last issue is how to light it, it's a little tough to find those massive CFL bulbs that are inside a reflector over the pond here in the UK. I do still have all those CFL bulbs from my current tank, but would like something that looks neat.

  5. #25

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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    Got another idea to make this tank that much more awesome!
    I'm going to get the company building the tank to build two of the sump tanks (24" long x 20" wide x 15" high) and have the other in the left hand part of the cabinet.
    I'm going to get a float valve and place it at the normal water level in the sump on the right, and reuse the peristaltic pump (currently feeding the ATS sump) to do fresh water top-offs!

  6. #26
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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    Ok, about the sloped design: It has been tried, correct, but there have been no success reports yet. Snail got about as far as anyone did with his LED version. They are space-saving, yes, but they add extra variables which most DIY folks have trouble overcoming. Sagging screens cause puddling; slower water flow decreases efficiency; algae clumps re-direct water flow. I'm sure it can be made to work, but you'd be doing the experimenting for us

    About the size: Sloped screens are always one-sided, because water will not flow down the bottom side, once algae starts growing. So you have two 10 X 12 screens = 240 sq inches lit one side. Your tank is 160g, which needs 160 sq inches lit both sides, or 360 sq inches lit one side. So I show that you'd be lacking in area. You'd probably be able to get by with 4 days between cleanings, with that size, if of course the sloped design worked as planned.

  7. #27
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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    SM; If you recall ol' Adey had his screens all slightly sloped,(horizontal), and he used them for aquaculture. So I suspect they will work just fine. Sure they're one sided. But they can cover a larger area without vertical issues. With a three sided acrylic structure they can be tilted backwards and carried to a sink without all the dripping water or the need for a pail that vertical screens cause/need.. A flexible screen would, I agree, be folly.

  8. #28
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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    Yes most of his were sloped, but the aquaculture ones were dumping designs, and splashed a lot. It's not known how or if an overflow-fed version would splash. It certainly would be a function of the algae that built up directly where the water hits the screen. I guess I see a potential problem in the vacinity right around where the water hits; sort of a metering issue. Since the flow is radially outwards, a small algae blockage near that spot will radiate out and expand. With a "normal" vertical pipe, any blockage only takes out the path directly below it; it does not expand as it flows down. I also have to wonder why there have not been success reports yet. Many have tried them... probably ten... but they never reported back. I hope it does indeed work. I just think that right now they are in the same category that LEDs are, experimental.

  9. #29

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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    Santamonica: you missed the point, I can fit a 24"x20", so 480 square inches lit on one side (same surface area as the other design) by putting it sloped into a large sump.
    I guess I could always increase the slope to get a higher water flow, and attach the screen at the top to make sure it doesn't slide/ruck up, and place the old screen on top of it to seed it.
    Also with the outlet, I'm going to heat up some plastic 1.5" piping until it softens then squash it slightly so it forms a flatter shape so the water comes out in a sheet, then direct it at the top of the screen using a 45 degree bend, and do the same for both of feeds, this should give an even flow without too much in one point.
    Also, I don't believe the actual speed of the water makes much difference to algae growth, for instance, I get about the same growth at the bottom of my screen as I do at the top. What does make a huge difference is the volume of water that flows per second, which doesn't change from the top to the bottom, e.g. at the top of the screen you'd get a higher volume flowing slower, and at the bottom you'd get a thinner sheet of water flowing faster, so same overall flow (otherwise water is coming from nowhere).
    So as long as I can get these nozzles to spread the water over the screen evenly and direct the water at 45 degrees so that it's already flowing in that direction (as apposed to just dumping water down vertically on the top of the slope).
    Using the nozzles should also effectively eliminate most clogging issues with algae growing (of course, it'll need to be cleaned but not as often as it would if it were touching the screen)

  10. #30

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    Re: New tank design with ATS in mind

    This is what I had in mind (and hopefully what kcress was thinking too!):


    and the ATS part:


    Obviously, I'm going to need to sort something out for the lighting

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