Ace's ATS v2.0 - LEDs

[SantaMonica]

I updating all the example pics of scrubbers. If you would like to have any special pics of yours for an LED example, we could do that since yours is the only one that has grown anything.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Don't forget about Rygh's scrubber!

[Ace25]

I agree with Floyd, Rygh's scrubber was certainly before mine and I used his as a starting point when building mine. I do think I am getting much more growth than he is though, actually cleaned my screen yesterday and each 4 days it is more and more full, felt like several pounds on the screen yesterday when I pulled it out to clean (obviously a lot of water weight, but still, each time I pull it out to clean it feels significantly heavier than the time before).

I don't know what other types of pictures you would like, but if there is a specific picture you want just ask and I will take one for you. If you want a screen picture (full) it will be a few more days until the next cleaning.

[SantaMonica]

Yes some full-screen pics, next to the LED's would be nice.

Growth is the important part, so if Rygh has some growth pics too we can use them.

[Floyd R Turbo]

He has some on page 4 of this thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=645

But not a more recent one. Will bump his thread

[Ace25]

Just a quick update since I see more and more people interested in LEDs for an ATS these days. My conclusion on an earlier page and how long it may take for me to change my opinion on when I think LEDs will become a cost effective replacement lighting seems to be happening much sooner than I expected. Only 3 months. With a variety of LED options out now and being tested, as of today, I actually think a Red LED setup, whether it be an eshinesystems LED light or a DIY light, seems to be at a point that is comparable to T5HOs. Still no where near cheap enough to replace CFL/Reflector setups, but I don't think CFLs are a very efficient lighting method (and I am running a dual 42w CFL light on my 60G, it takes 3 weeks to get 1/2 the growth that my 75G with red LEDs gets in 3 days, BIG difference). Right now I am only running 4 660nm Red LEDs per side, and it is working great, but I do think 6 3w LEDs per side on a 13"x10" screen is the magic number and I ordered 4 more LEDs today so I can have 6 per side.

Here are my thoughts on amount of LEDs today with what I have first hand experience with. When Floyd gets his custom LED light made, the choice of spectrum will probably change slightly to incorporate more 630-640nm light vs what I am saying today, I just know 660nm works very well on its own so that is why I am making the recommendation. If I find out a mixture of different spectrum LEDs work better, I will again revise my opinion, so please don't take my opinion as the final answer to "LEDs on an ATS", this is just one of dozens of variations we will discover that work well for our purpose. I am only speaking about 3w LEDs, not 1w, 5w, or 10w, those are a whole different can or worms and I have no experience with any other type of LED for an ATS other than 3w LEDs. I know the other types will work, I just don't have a clue what the answer would be to how to design a system around them at this time.

6 3w OSRAM 660nm LEDs per side, 2 rows of 3 staggard, will give you plenty of coverage, intensity, and spectrum to light one side of a screen. So for a standard 13"x10" screen, 12 3w LEDs total and 1 700mA constant current driver along with heatsink (and fan if heatsink isn't big enough) is what I feel is required to get VERY good growth out of a standard size screen ATS.

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-172 ... Red/Detail (12 LEDs = $66)
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-3/d ... ers/Detail ($18)

So the 2 main components will run you $84 + shipping/tax in california, and add about $26 more for thermal paste and some type of material for a heatsink, and possibly a small fan. Your looking at around $110-$120 for a DIY LED light that will work fantastic for a 13"x10" screen as long as you make sure to protect the LEDs from saltwater (like I did by making a glass box with a lid.) I would say a good distance for LEDs from the screen would be about 3". Remember, most 3w LEDs without optics usually have a very wide viewing angle (120-140degree), not a tight cone shape, optics give you that. No need to add optics for a scrubber with LEDs so close, you want the beam spread out anyway to get good coverage.

I am now designing ATS v3 to replace v2. With more lessons learned from version 2/LEDs, I believe I can now shrink my ATS, put a 20G tank under my stand, and run only the ATS w/ LEDs as my only filtration and be able to get rid of all the equipment off to the side of my tank like the pictures show in the first page.

[jnad]

Hello!
It seems very interesting to use lead.
Because I now make a nano scrubber to be placed on top of the aquarium, I have a questions regarding distance from the leds to the screen:
You propose 3 inches as a suitable distance, but unfortunately this is too far when it comes and make a small nano scrubber. Is a 1 inch distance between 3W leds and the screen too close? Will this lead to burning algae?

jnad

[Ace25]

If you want to put the LEDs closer than 3" I would put more LEDs per side to make up for the coverage and run the current at 500mA or less on the LEDs. Since your talking about a nano scrubber you still shouldn't need more than 6 per side. I just looked at your nano scrubber, single sided, so ya, 5 or 6 LEDs at 1" distance on your scrubber would be my recommendation and run them at 400-500mA, which means you would want to get a dimmable driver like a Buckpuck that handles up to 6 3w LEDs.

Driver - http://www.ledsupply.com/03021-d-e-700.php
Power Supply - http://www.ledsupply.com/12vdc25a.php

Or get a bigger driver and it has a built in power supply
meanwell driver - http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-41/ ... ble/Detail
knobs to dim it - http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-116 ... ter/Detail

[SantaMonica]

You would not want to dim a scrubber; you'd want to reduce hours instead.

[Ace25]

By dimming you achieve 2 things when talking about putting 3w LEDs within 1" of the screen material. First, the LEDs won't be as intense so there is less chance of "burning" happening and second, the LEDs will last longer and run cooler. We are only talking 200mA less than I run mine. In theory, by me running my red LEDs off a 700mA constant current driver, I am in effect running the LEDs "dimmed" because they are designed to run at 1000mA.

Just my opinion, but I think running them at 500mA is the correct answer on jnad's nano scrubber setup from looking at his current design/build thread if using 3w LEDs. I think a 1w LED setup would probably be a better solution overall for his scrubber, but building a 1w LED light to fit his scrubber is seems harder to do.... well.. maybe not. I just found this link. This would be my first option if I were in jnad's shoes. I would get these LEDs and the buckpuck driver and fit as many as you can into the light section of the scrubber on a piece of aluminum plate and a small fan like a small computer fan blowing down into the light chamber to keep the LEDs cool. I would paint the outside of the scrubber black though to block out the escaping light. Bright red light spilling into a dark room can get old real fast.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Red-1W-1-Wa ... 3004wt_905
http://www.ledsupply.com/03023-d-n-350.php (each buckpuck can handle up to 6 1w LEDs, you would need 2 + a power supply for 10 LEDs if you could fit that many, 5 LEDs per driver.

I think of it like this, is it better to run a 42w CFL or 2x 23w CFLs for a 13"x10" screen? The 2x 23w will give you more coverage and that could be considered a form of "dimming" a 42w CFL. That is my thinking when it comes to LEDs and running more LEDs but running them at 1/2 the amperage. It isn't the most cost effective route with LEDs but in certain scenarios the most cost effective route isn't an option if you want to use 3w LEDs.