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Thread: RC information correction

  1. #1
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    RC information correction

    This Barfly fellow might be corrected:

    http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost. ... count=2374

    ... nobody with a sm100 has crashed; they would have told me. There only was 180reeftank, who's tank-moving caused an unfortunate crash, as it would with any reef; and he had just started using the scrubber at that time anyway... it had not been in use long before that.

    and Barfly's post here:

    http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost. ... count=2396

    ...It's actually been 3 years for me with no WC; and that includes going through half-gallon iron overdosing; anti-bacterial-containing egg whites overdosing; powerhead re-arrangement die-off; 25 cubes/day equivalent overfeeding; zero feeding starvation (3 months) die-off. All have recovered with no WC.

    What kind of a moron is Barfly to point to Adey's book, which makes the case for an ATS-only system that ran for 8 years with "no import" (meaning, only food was added) ?

  2. #2
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    Re: RC information correction

    One word... TROLL. 1 Lesson I learned about the internet, NEVER FEED THE TROLLS. Just ignore him, he is obviously just trying to cause trouble just to get the thread locked. Any people trying to "correct" him is just going to make the thread worse and more likely to get locked... so everyone, just IGNORE Barfly. It is obvious he doesn't run a scrubber and has no idea what he is talking about.

    Bottom line, skimmers, water changes, and carbon are not only recommended to be used with an ATS, imo, they are mandatory. Especially when keeping sps.
    That line alone is enough for me to not even bother. Such an ignorant statement. My SPS corals are doing BETTER with having only an ATS running as filtration on my 55G tank. Never used carbon on the tank since it was setup and never used a skimmer on it, but I admit, I still do water changes because it is still a "new" system (less than 6 months) and until I feel it is matured and self sustaining I will continue to do water changes on it for the short term. So to say carbon and a skimmer are mandatory for SPS coral is just plain wrong. I took the SPS corals out of my 75G tank which is running an ATS, Carbon, Skimmer, and GFO, because they were dying in that system, almost bleached out, and within 2 weeks of putting them into the other tank they have all regained their color and showing growth. I obviously have other issues with my 75G and am not saying that the skimmer and carbon are causing the problems with SPS corals in that tank but they certainly are not doing anything to help either.

  3. #3
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    Re: RC information correction

    Barfly is probably employed by a lfs or skimmer co.

    Not a very efficient employee though.

  4. #4
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    Re: RC information correction

    And another thing, Barfly should be informed that in the early experiment on public aquariums, they did not supplement calcium. That's right... there was no calcium added at all. Then, when they removed the scrubbers, they started adding calcium, and the stony corals started growing again. Details below.

    As for Adey not having any stony corals in his 8-year closed system at the Smithsonian, why then does Adey state how his calcification was equal to the ocean?...
    http://algalturfscrubber.com/parameter.htm

    As for where the food/traces comes from that feed corals, tell Barfly to read the FAQ which tell you what algae puts into the water. Same thing as the algae in the ocean put in the water.

    And does he not know that the TULARC link he posted was from the early 90's?

    Here are the details on the public aquarium aquarium:

    Great Barrier Reef Aquarium

    Many people who have not built a scrubber properly (after August 1988) often say how the Great Barrier Reef aquarium was a scrubber "failure" because the corals did poorly. Apparently these people have not done much reading. In the early days of that aquarium, the scrubber was doing it's job great:

    1988:

    Nutrient Cycling In The Great Barrier Reef Aquarium
    http://www.reefbase.org/download/downlo ... ocid=10506

    "The Reef Tank represents the first application of algal scrubber technology to large volume aquarium systems. Aquaria using conventional water purification methods (e.g. bacterial filters) generally have nutrient levels in parts per million, while algal scrubbers have
    maintained parts per billion concentrations [much lower], despite heavy biological loading in the Reef Tank. The success of the algal scrubbers in maintaining suitable water quality for a coral reef was demonstrated in the observed spawning of scleractinian corals and many other tank inhabitants."

    But did you know that they did not add calcium? That's right, in 1988 they did not know that calcium needed to be added to a reef tank. Even five years after that, the Pittsburgh Zoo was just starting to test a "mesocosm" scrubber reef tank to see if calcium levels would drop:

    1993:

    An Introduction to the Biogeochemical Cycling of Calcium and Substitutive Strontium in Living Coral Reef Mesocosms
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 5/abstract

    "It was hypothesized that Ca2+ and the substitutive elements Sr2+ and Mg2+ might [!] have reduced concentrations in a coral reef microcosm due to continuous reuse of the same seawater as a consequence of the recycling process inherent in the coral reef mesocosm."

    "The scleractinians (Montastrea, Madracis, Porites, Diploria, and Acropora) and calcareous alga (Halimeda and others) present in the coral reef mesocosm are the most likely organisms responsible for the significant reduction in concentration of the Ca2+ and Sr2+ cations."

    "Ca is not normally a biolimiting element, and strontium is never a biolimiting element;
    HCO3 [alk] can be. It appears that, because of a minor [!] limitation in the design parameters of the mesocosm, these elements and compounds may have become limiting factors. [...] It is surprising that the organisms could deplete the thousands of gallons of seawater (three to six thousand) of these elements even within two or more years [!!].

    "The calcification processes are little understood."

    So then in the late 90's, the Barrier Reef aquarium start using up it's supply of calcium, and the folks there said "the corals grew poorly". Really. No calcium, and the corals grew poorly. So they "removed the scrubbers" and "experimented with the addition of calcium" sometime after 1998. Then in 2004 it "definitely improved a lot". Really.


    Talks about calcium was not added to barrier aq:
    http://en.microcosmaquariumexplorer.com ... f_Aquarium

  5. #5
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    Re: RC information correction

    You'll notice that his tactic is to post the exact opposite of the way things actually work.

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    Re: RC information correction

    The mods actually stepped in and told him to get out

  7. #7

    Re: RC information correction

    And I bought the 2 SM-100 from 180Reeftank for a great price! They should be here tomorrow.

    I'm planning my future build soon. So far, my DIY scrubber is working. My SPS are doing as good as I can expect.

    I read so many posts with people using all sorts of systems out there to control nutrient. ATS is just simple and it works!!!

    I think it takes one TOTM using an ATS to show people that ATS do work and work just as good as any other well known system out there.

  8. #8
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    Re: RC information correction

    Well if it counts, mine was TOTM at All-Reefs.com a few years ago, and Adey's was TOTM on MASA last year.

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