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Thread: My new ATS Please Help

  1. #1

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    Talking My new ATS Please Help

    BASICS OF MY NEED FOR HELP:

    Tank: 90g display with 240lbs of live rock and ~75g of actual system water. 14 fish and lots of coral that is not grown out. I consider that I feed heavily. Phosphates are ~.01 and nitrates are ~5ppm currently. Tank will be 2 years old in February.

    I have 2 simple questions that I know have complex answers. Any information that is needed to answer this question thoroughly please let me know and will gladly reply.

    #1 is a 9.5" x 10" too large? (Lit with 42w 2700k CFL's on both sides. I feed 3-4 frozen cubes per day, 2 cubes of frozen cyclopeeze per week, sheet algae for tang once a week and spot feed corals with additional food 1-3 times per week.)

    #2 Can I run without a skimmer and still have a healthy tank? (I REALLY want to run w/o a skimmer because that was the whole point of the ATS. So, if it is not safe, what can I do to make it safe?)

    BACKGROUND AND TANK INFO:

    I am catching a LOT of flack about my decision to run my tank without a skimmer. The easiest way to see everything I have done is to use my website where I document everything. This page shows the ATS and has a 4.5 minute video outlining everything about how I set things up.

    http://truzul.com/ats

    I am lighting on both sides with 42w 2700k CFL's. I built this thing over the past 6 months because I was only able to work on it here and there. I notice the sizing recommendations have changed dramatically. I have a 550 gallon per hour pump hooked to the ATS but am only running about 400 gallons per hour through it right now. I will ramp it up (or down) as needed.

    Right now I have a 90 gallon tank with 240lbs of live rock and about 75 gallons of total water volume. My phosphates are barely readable and my nitrates are ~5ppm. I hate my skimmer and do not want to run it. It is a HOB Octopus BH800s. It is loud and stinky and the entire reason I built this ATS was to get rid of the skimmer. I do run carbon 24/7 and change it out every month or so. I also do 25-40% water changes every two weeks without fail. (I have been known to let it go to three weeks every once in a while but I then do a 40% water change.) I have 14 fish in the tank and it is fairly well stocked with coral except it is not grown out. I also have a RBTA (quadricolor) in there. On my site you can see a lot more pics of the tank and stats, however, I do have SPS corals. Nothing that is super hard to keep in my opinion. If any more information is needed please ask or look on my site. (It is probably there.)

    Regards,
    Brandon

  2. #2

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    Re: My new ATS Please Help!

    Here is a basic image. For more details please visit my take website: http://truzul.com/ats

    One of my main concerns is that someone said I should worry about 'algae exudes' making my tank crash and that SPS will brown out and/or die.

    Another concern is they say if the pump fails while I am away that my tank will crash.


  3. #3

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    Re: My new ATS Please Help!

    "One of my main concerns is that someone said I should worry about 'algae exudes' making my tank crash and that SPS will brown out and/or die."
    There's another thread on browning, but that's still unresolved. Some people have great colors without running GAC, others may run GAC to lower DOCs.

    "Another concern is they say if the pump fails while I am away that my tank will crash."
    That's no different than if your main pump fails or your skimmer pump fails.

    The first thing I see in your pics is that you don't have reflectors on the lights. You are only capturing 20% or so of the light output with your screen, so you are wasting a lot of energy, and you may not have enough light going to the screen for good growth. Try tinfoil or a hacked up soda can as a reflector if nothing else.

  4. #4
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    Re: My new ATS Please Help!

    If pump will go south you will have problems aither way I thing. Anyway if your ATS will dry out, not try just to switch pump back on and wait for miracle. You need to clean dead algae away before, or make new screen.

    Another concern is they say if the pump fails while I am away that my tank will crash.
    The same with skimer . No ?

  5. #5

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    Re: My new ATS Please Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by MorganAtlanta
    "One of my main concerns is that someone said I should worry about 'algae exudes' making my tank crash and that SPS will brown out and/or die."
    There's another thread on browning, but that's still unresolved. Some people have great colors without running GAC, others may run GAC to lower DOCs.

    "Another concern is they say if the pump fails while I am away that my tank will crash."
    That's no different than if your main pump fails or your skimmer pump fails.

    The first thing I see in your pics is that you don't have reflectors on the lights. You are only capturing 20% or so of the light output with your screen, so you are wasting a lot of energy, and you may not have enough light going to the screen for good growth. Try tinfoil or a hacked up soda can as a reflector if nothing else.
    So, run activated carbon and I can solve the issue of "algae exudes" ? Also, yes, I have not installed my reflectors yet. I have some white ABS I am going to use as reflectors and I may possibly add some tin foil to that.

    I am most concerned with the fact that people say my SPS corals will not do well and within a year may die off if I do not run a skimmer.

  6. #6
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    Re: My new ATS Please Help

    Most important is you are losing most of your light (and filtering) out the side and back. That is why your chaeto is not dead yet. Get good reflectors, pull the skimmer and GFO, stop the waterchanges, and you will be good to go. Nutrients should stay low, scrubber growth should quadruple, and coral growth should increase.

    Yes algae "exudes"... vitamin C, amino acids, carbohydrates. The things corals need to grow, and the same things reefers buy and dose.

    Your feeding will be limited by the liquid; it delivers more nutrients to the water more quickly, so a small increase in liquid feeding can overpower a scrubber quickly.

  7. #7

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    Re: My new ATS Please Help

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMonica
    Most important is you are losing most of your light (and filtering) out the side and back. That is why your chaeto is not dead yet. Get good reflectors, pull the skimmer and GFO, stop the waterchanges, and you will be good to go. Nutrients should stay low, scrubber growth should quadruple, and coral growth should increase.
    Why stop the water changes, surely that can do harm?

    Why remove the carbon or as Ace25 said a better alternative such as purigen. It does no harm and keeps currently for hobbyists unmeasurable DOC at natural levels which is what corals have evolved to live in.

    Quote Originally Posted by sublime
    Tank: 90g display with 240lbs of live rock and ~75g of actual system water. 14 fish and lots of coral that is not grown out. I consider that I feed heavily. Phosphates are ~.01 and nitrates are ~5ppm currently. Tank will be 2 years old in February.
    Why did you decide to use so much live rock, does it not create dead spots where detritus will build up?

  8. #8
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    Re: My new ATS Please Help

    unmeasurable DOC at natural levels which is what corals have evolved to live in.
    Good try.

    Sublime... dirty harry has forgotten what he's read many times here... the oceans have very high doc levels, so you are fine.

  9. #9

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    Re: My new ATS Please Help

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMonica
    Most important is you are losing most of your light (and filtering) out the side and back. That is why your chaeto is not dead yet. Get good reflectors, pull the skimmer and GFO, stop the waterchanges, and you will be good to go. Nutrients should stay low, scrubber growth should quadruple, and coral growth should increase.

    Yes algae "exudes"... vitamin C, amino acids, carbohydrates. The things corals need to grow, and the same things reefers buy and dose.

    Your feeding will be limited by the liquid; it delivers more nutrients to the water more quickly, so a small increase in liquid feeding can overpower a scrubber quickly.
    First, thank you very much for the reply. Second, I have already installed some kick butt reflectors and put tin foil completely around the tank on the outside to keep light trapped in the sump for two reasons. One, to keep as much light on the screen as possible and two, because too much light was leaking into the living room.

    #ONE
    Why stop the water changes? That scares me. I feel that consistent water changes are key to the success I have seen with my system. I have excellent growth and colors. Also, water changes helps to put all levels of trace elements back into equilibrium. I am happy with everything you have said except for stopping the water changes. I would not have a problem lowering the percentage though. Perhaps to 15 or 20 gallons but then I would make SURE to do that every 2 weeks.

    #TWO
    Can you explain to me why other people state that over time without a skimmer, my SPS will end up dying off and that the tank will end up yellow and badly discolored. What is your reason for taking out the carbon? I need the carbon to help battle the chemical warfare that my softies vs lps vs sps vs anemonies are waging.

    #THREE
    Last question. The usable area is 9" x 10" -- This is oversized compared to your new dimensions. Is that okay? I do feed A LOT.

    Thank you very much for the replies from all so far.

    Brandon

  10. #10

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    Re: My new ATS Please Help

    Quote Originally Posted by dtyharry
    Why did you decide to use so much live rock, does it not create dead spots where detritus will build up?
    I wanted a back wall look. And NO I have zero dead spots and that was very hard to achieve -- I have about 7000 gallons per hour of pump drive in that tank and there isn't a quite spot in the tank. There are still a few spots that are slower than others, which is perfect. I took a long time and two complete re-aquascapes to reach this point, however, things are looking VERY good now days and there is a LARGE volume flow throughout the tank with MANY highly erratic flow currents.

    Thanks for your comments, I appreciate any help I can get on this topic.

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