Scrubbers Sounds intrestings...More info please.

[AaaRr]

Hello guys I am new and I mean NEW! I have a 90 gallon tank with a stand. I have not bought anything else except a API reef master test kit. I am using Fish Forums and RM forums to gather information. I have deiced on my power heads and well my heaters small victory but they are done. I was moving on to figure out what kind of skimmer I wanted then I saw SantaMonica in FF posting about scrubbers. I have read much about them but still do not know enough. Once I get a scrubber I do not need a skimmer correct? The tank has to have a overflow correct? I think I still want a sump but would I just want a empty tank that can be filled with water rather than having all the baffles in it? That away I can have my scrubber heater pumps and such out of sight. I was wondering if you think I should drill the tank or do over the back overflow. I would like to drill it but have know clue what pvc parts I need and how to make a correct over flow. Does a Scrubber make lots of noise like a mini water fall would or is it silent because it is submerged just a little in the water? If I go with a scrubber can I do it from the very beginning and never have to buy a skimmer? If so should I have the scrubber on when the tank does it cycle when I add LR and LS in? I am assuming the scrubber just replaces the skimmer and I just need everything but the skimmer that I would normal need. I have read that with a scrubber people do not have to do water changes as frequently does this mean so little frequency that I would not have to buy a RO system and just go off of LFS water?
Thanks,
Deven

P.S. If you have DIY step-by-step Scrubbers that you think are worth looking into over others please feel free to link them.

[SantaMonica]

Once I get a scrubber I do not need a skimmer correct?

Correct, most of the time. One exception would be a fish-only tank with big fish, and no rock or sand. Having small food particles floating in the water is of no use, so a skimmer is a good idea to remove the food.

The tank has to have a overflow correct?

No. You can make an above-tank scrubber like this:

I think I still want a sump but would I just want a empty tank that can be filled with water rather than having all the baffles in it? That away I can have my scrubber heater pumps and such out of sight.

If your primary concern is nutrient reduction, you don't need lots of baffles and dividers. Just an open sump, with water swiftly going through it. Separate sections, and slow water, will let waste/food settle, and rot.

I was wondering if you think I should drill the tank or do over the back overflow. I would like to drill it but have know clue what pvc parts I need and how to make a correct over flow.

If you ARE going to have a sump, you MUST have a drilled tank. An overflow will stop flowing eventually, and will kill your scrubber because of the lack of flow. As for how to actually drill it, you should visit the plumbing forums on your favorite reef sites.

Does a Scrubber make lots of noise like a mini water fall would or is it silent because it is submerged just a little in the water?

They are basically silent.

If I go with a scrubber can I do it from the very beginning and never have to buy a skimmer? If so should I have the scrubber on when the tank does it cycle when I add LR and LS in?

If you are starting a tank from scratch, you can start with a scrubber only. Start the scrubber when cycling.

I am assuming the scrubber just replaces the skimmer and I just need everything but the skimmer that I would normal need.

Scrubbers and skimmers do opposite things. Skimmers remove food. Scrubbers remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate.

I have read that with a scrubber people do not have to do water changes as frequently does this mean so little frequency that I would not have to buy a RO system and just go off of LFS water?

If the purpose of doing a water change is to reduce nitrate or phosphate, then a scrubber should eliminate water changes. If the purpose of a water change is to remove poisons or medications, then you must still do the changes. As for RO or RODI, it is true that many of the things removed by RO filters are removed by scrubbers. BUT, the scrubber can only remove these things once they are already in your tank. So, the best system would be to use an RODI along with a scrubber. However, if you are in a position to experiment (i.e., if some corals were to die, you'd be ok), then you can certainly try not using an RODI.

If you have DIY step-by-step Scrubbers that you think are worth looking into over others please feel free to link them.

You can start with these:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37

[AaaRr]

Very quick and VERY helpful response! Thanks for that. I am going to be doing it in my sump. I really like what Johntanjm did with his scrubber
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but would I be able to add lights on the two other sides too? Also I like how he has somewhat of a refuge there would that live? If I put frags in it? Also when using a pump does that kill a lot of the pods that the scrubber make? I was reading and read that it makes millions of pods so a couple dead does not seem to bad.

[worley]

About the RO/DI: I still use mine every few days to make up top-off water to replace the evaporated water (just put pure water in, no salt), so it will work out cheaper to have one in the long run rather than buying plain RO/DI water from the LFS.

About the one you pictured there, I'd recommend:
- just dip into the water to make it quieter and stop most of the bubbles and splashing.
- light it from both sides
- use a more rigid plastic canvas instead of material
- and I'm sure santamonica will say don't use the foam pads as he mentioned above, unless it's a fish only tank

The fuge idea will still work, it probably won't have anywhere near the effect on the tank that the scrubber does but probably won't hurt at all.

[AaaRr]

Yeah I know better to not use the foam pads cause they are a trap for pods and stuff that I want to be in my Reef tank. Agree with more lights and a harder material, I am going to use the materiel that is recommend. Also I should have 3 baffles instead of just the two he has there correct?

[SantaMonica]

Correct on the foam.

But that flexible screen material may actually work well; it will just not last forever. However since it has tiny fibers, algae sticks good to it.

As for pods, scrubbers only produce baby (less than one week old) pods that are barely visible specks. The weekly cleaning keeps them from growing bigger. So if you want bigger pods, yes you will wants something like rock rubble for them to grow in.

[AaaRr]

Ok I put my self in a cornor kind of... I just bought 100 lbs of live rock and sand if not more...Got a really great deal on it but my tank is not setup I have blowers and heaters that's it. Right now its chilling in a rubbermaid lol. So I need to get this scrubber set up asap my tank is not drilled and now not sure if I am going to is it possible to sill do a scrubber with a non drilled tank? If so how do you think I should do it? Would it be an over the back box overflow? I have looked on my favorite forums and they offer very little help. Also I have a hole saw that has been in the grage for awhile and was wondering if this would work I do not think it would and kind of do not want to chance it but it is http://www.buyacehardware.com/disston-o ... 19436.html . Where do you think I would be able to find a glass hole saw and what size would I need I have looked at homedepot and lowes online no luck. I am looking for something in town that I could pick up. I live in a big town so what kind of shops should I check out?

[worley]

Look at the diagram Santamonica posted, you can place a container with a scrubber *higher* than the main tank and pump water out, then let it flow down back into the tank.
This has a few practical issues, like where do you put it?
As for drilling the hole (I needed to enlarge one in the really thick 10mm glass), I used a ceramic/glass hole cutter and I've written a step-by-step guide here :
http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/...t=117&start=40
When you cut a hole you ideally need a "weir" in the tank, so if the hole leaks at the bottom of the tank it doesn't just drain the entire tank into the sump and then the floor...
It's possible to do all this, you'll need to get some glass cut, to make the tall box, some overflow comb to go at the top of the weir to stop fish etc getting in, you'll need to double check the hole cutter you have is: a) the right size, b) also does glass (ceramic ones tend to, but check first), and then you'll need to plumb it in (I built a durso standpipe (well two actually) and it works perfectly (also see that thread) - see http://www.dursostandpipes.com/ for more info.

[SantaMonica]

You can do a siphon overflow for now... it's a bit of a balancing act, adusting flow etc, and long term it will fail, but for now it will work. Just set up a siphon down to the sump, and the sump pump brings it back up to the tank. Play with the siphon hose size (or valve) until it matches the pump volume. And put the pump high enough in the sump so that when the siphon fails, all the water won't get pumped out of the sump (should not overflow the tank).

[worley]

I find even the idea of a siphon overflow scary, I can see floods if the siphon breaks and there's enough water in the sump, or sump pumps running dry and burning up, neither are great, but it would work as a very temporary solution.. maybe... lol