now i got real problem

[redadeath]

hi santa
i am now running mu scrubber for over a year and i have good green algae growth

the problem is most my sps are brown and most of peopl saying it is extra nutrients problem

so if i lower my feeding algea may dies

and when i increase feeding algae got very good growth

i feed frozen blendar mash and i add vitaimin to it


so should i stop feeding ?
i am afraid my algae become weak

if i increase feeding

i will not be able to get rid of extra nutirent

also i wonder how much phospate and nitrates needed to the algae to live and flourish

so need advice please

[FrozenReef]

Regarding SPS brown.

You forgot to mention your lighting on the show tank. What are you running ?

Specifically which SPS do you have ?

[redadeath]

acropora... turbinaria
250 watt * 2 14000 k

corals are only 20 cm from the surface they are wild colonies

[Ace25]

From my experience, turbinaria corals are very low light corals. Every time I have tried to move it up anything higher than 2" off the sand bed they bleach out in a day for me and take a month to regain color (I have a yellow/purple one). I have never actually had one "brown out" though, always bleach due to lighting, but you may be placing it right in a sweet spot were it is at the max lighting it can handle without hitting the bleaching phase.

My questions for you are, what are your N/P readings, what test kits did you use, and do you have any other type of filtration methods in addition to the ATS? (skimmer, carbon/purigen, GFO, etc). Do you have any PAR readings for your lighting? Are you running a Phoenix 14k? Is your MH a Single or double ended type? What type of reflector do you use? Just trying to get as much info as possible.

It is easy for Joe Blow internet guy (I am in that group as well) to just say "You're corals are brown and you run at ATS, well that is excess nutrients" but there is really no accuracy to that statement at all if they do not know more info about your tank. If these are close friends that see your tank in person and have been in the hobby a while, I would put much more weight into that statement being accurate.

To answer the question "How much N/P is needed for algae to flourish?", answer is "very little". .25 nitrates and .03 phosphates will still grow algae on an ATS screen very well.

[redadeath]

From my experience, turbinaria corals are very low light corals. Every time I have tried to move it up anything higher than 2" off the sand bed they bleach out in a day for me and take a month to regain color (I have a yellow/purple one). I have never actually had one "brown out" though, always bleach due to lighting, but you may be placing it right in a sweet spot were it is at the max lighting it can handle without hitting the bleaching phase.

My questions for you are, what are your N/P readings, what test kits did you use, and do you have any other type of filtration methods in addition to the ATS? (skimmer, carbon/purigen, GFO, etc). Do you have any PAR readings for your lighting? Are you running a Phoenix 14k? Is your MH a Single or double ended type? What type of reflector do you use? Just trying to get as much info as possible.

It is easy for Joe Blow internet guy (I am in that group as well) to just say "You're corals are brown and you run at ATS, well that is excess nutrients" but there is really no accuracy to that statement at all if they do not know more info about your tank. If these are close friends that see your tank in person and have been in the hobby a while, I would put much more weight into that statement being accurate.

To answer the question "How much N/P is needed for algae to flourish?", answer is "very little". .25 nitrates and .03 phosphates will still grow algae on an ATS screen very well, but one of the things an ATS allows you to do, and people should really take adva.

thank you ace my p/n readings are zero according to sera test kits
and i know they are not accurate

i have diy reflectors i did it my self
i have regular chiness skimmer that i believe it is not bad and have "chaeto algae in refuge " i didnt make it grow much so not to kill the algae on scrubber
i dont use carbo at all or gfo just cheato/scrubber /and skimmer nothing else
i am running hamilton 14 k single ended it is 25 cm above the water surface

my tds reading is 8 ppm i am going to add DI chamber for the ro filter

my green hair algae growth is great

the turbinaria is caught from high ligh place in the wild

here is the pictures for my tank

i read ur thread ACE before about coral browning so pleas advice

[redadeath]

additional picture for my tank

[Ace25]

Just going off your pictures, something about them just speaks to me that it is more of a phosphate issue than a nutrient issue. Call it a gut feeling, but take it with a huge grain of salt. Excess nutrients (DOCs) from my experience don't look exactly like what I am seeing in the pictures.. the second picture is more like a DOC issue (no polyps) but the first picture (which I am assuming that is a Garf Bonzai Acropora) has polyps out, but is browning, and that along with the brown spots on your turbinaria make me think phosphates. From my experience, if a tank has excess nutrients (DOCs) to the point that really affects corals, you usually will have some patches of hair algae within the display as well, no matter how well your filtration is working, and I don't see a spot of hair algae in your display pictures.

Do you know anyone with a Hanna phosphate meter? Drip test kits seem to be "good enough" for things like Nitrates, Calcium, Alkalinity, but I have never found those type to give any usable results as far as phosphates. Even a Hanna meter isn't that precise (+/- .04) but at least they give what I feel are usable readings, unlike liquid drip test kits for phosphates.

[redadeath]

Just going off your pictures, something about them just speaks to me that it is more of a phosphate issue than a nutrient issue. Call it a gut feeling, but take it with a huge grain of salt. Excess nutrients (DOCs) from my experience don't look exactly like what I am seeing in the pictures.. the second picture is more like a DOC issue (no polyps) but the first picture (which I am assuming that is a Garf Bonzai Acropora) has polyps out, but is browning, and that along with the brown spots on your turbinaria make me think phosphates. From my experience, if a tank has excess nutrients (DOCs) to the point that really affects corals, you usually will have some patches of hair algae within the display as well, no matter how well your filtration is working, and I don't see a spot of hair algae in your display pictures.

Do you know anyone with a Hanna phosphate meter? Drip test kits seem to be "good enough" for things like Nitrates, Calcium, Alkalinity, but I have never found those type to give any usable results as far as phosphates. Even a Hanna meter isn't that precise (+/- .04) but at least they give what I feel are usable readings, unlike liquid drip test kits for phosphates.

i dont think that in my area i would find such test kit and it will cost me alot if i ordered it online

should i stop feeding ?

for how long ? i am afraid that scrubber dies

and if i stopped or decreased feeding for how long to show the results

i am ordering purigen now and it will be here after 3 weeks

what should i do till it comes?

my kh is
10
calcium 440

magnesium 1250

[Ace25]

I think Purigen is always good to have, and could "help" your issue (if your issue is a combination of slightly elevated DOCs AND phosphates, which is very possible) but I would also order some GFO or alternative phosphate removal media as well. Also, Hanna sells "pocket meters" and cost $50 in the states for a phosphate checker (and in theory has the same accuracy as the $200 version). Not sure how much it cost where you live, and shipping may kill the deal for you. For $50, it is a no brainer to purchase.. heck, $200 for the large one I paid for and I believe it is by far the best testing device/kit I have ever bought. Completely worth the cost to me.

I do not think "feeding less" is the answer here.. actually, I don't think feeding less is the answer to anything, just a short term fix for certain problems. Food is good as long as it gets consumed, but even if all of it doesn't get consumed, the ATS will help out a lot once it starts to decay. Plus you have a skimmer running which also removed excess food.

I know I talk a lot about the negatives.. docs, phosphates, etc.. and I know to some it probably comes across as a much bigger deal than it is for most. It is something to be aware of, and control if need be, but I don't want everyone thinking it is a giant issue for everyone, actually, I would guess probably less than 5% of people have these types of issues that I describe, and have myself. For the majority, like Santa Monica, an ATS as the only filtration seems to work perfect for them. Even if DOCs and Phosphates become an issue in an ATS run tank, it shouldn't take more than a weekend a month of running Purigen/GFO to get the tank back into proper balance. So while these are issues to be aware of and control, the methods in order to control them are very easy to do.

[redadeath]

so what do u think it is the problem

feeding less wil make phosphate less ??

i am really confused

i am going to upgrade for 400 watt

adding DI unit

and getting purigen

i hope something solve my problem