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Thread: Co2 turbo

  1. #161
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    So, Garf.. You think you could find some time to give an overview of the results of your setups vs results on the CO2 injection? What was setup each time, method and amount of injection, obsticals you faced, and any results you think you found? I recently just tried switching to the UAS on a new tank, and had the idea to inject CO2 into my air intake. Was going to try the yeast reactor/bubble counter method and I came across this thread. Had trouble following and pulling out any conclusive results. I'd expect some dropped pH, but thought maybe a manageable amount, since there is not a lot of time for the co2 to diffuse into the water column... Which is the reason freshwater plant keepers need diffusers. However, this also made me wonder about the effectiveness of the delivery method itself... Would the algae be able to utilize the CO2 in gas form (to a degree that makes maintaining the Co2 reactor worth it)? I believe the lack of CO2 thing eating up bicarbonates is one of the biggest challenges to the ATS I face on my established tank. Thanks Garf!

  2. #162
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    No conclusive stuff Shorty, however, several facts are evident;
    1) Algae grows better with a bit of Co2, so that energy isn't wasted converting carbonate to Co2.
    2) Co2 does diffuse into salt water when the partial gas pressure is above that of the water. Ie if Co2 is being used up, the water becomes more receptive to Co2 ingress.
    3) co2 diffuses better with skimmer size bubbles, as diffusion is proportional to surface area.
    4) it's possible to reduce water pH in the short term to at least 7.3pH (using a DIY generator) but this is outside the algae tolerance zone in most cases, and could be counterproductive.
    5) unused Co2 is almost immediately gassed out.
    6) a thin layer of tiny bubbles refracts less light away from the screen than lots of large bubbles.
    7) indoor air contains twice the natural levels of Co2 (ish).
    8) in my case, ALK depletion is not a problem (with just air bubbles). Maybe using a bit, but may also be my Kalk addition method.

    With your reference about a UAS, I have no experience of this. Just hope that some of the above is helpful.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garf View Post
    No conclusive stuff Shorty, however, several facts are evident;
    1) Algae grows better with a bit of Co2, so that energy isn't wasted converting carbonate to Co2.
    2) Co2 does diffuse into salt water when the partial gas pressure is above that of the water. Ie if Co2 is being used up, the water becomes more receptive to Co2 ingress.
    3) co2 diffuses better with skimmer size bubbles, as diffusion is proportional to surface area.
    4) it's possible to reduce water pH in the short term to at least 7.3pH (using a DIY generator) but this is outside the algae tolerance zone in most cases, and could be counterproductive.
    5) unused Co2 is almost immediately gassed out.
    6) a thin layer of tiny bubbles refracts less light away from the screen than lots of large bubbles.
    7) indoor air contains twice the natural levels of Co2 (ish).
    8) in my case, ALK depletion is not a problem (with just air bubbles). Maybe using a bit, but may also be my Kalk addition method.

    With your reference about a UAS, I have no experience of this. Just hope that some of the above is helpful.
    Thanks for the run-down! I appreciate it. That is helpful. From looking at another thread (i think a build thread) - I believe I gathered that you are running a waterfall scrubber and you are injecting the air into the pump that fills the waterfall reservoir? However, I know at some point in this thread you also mentioned bubbles actually climbing your waterfall... and at another point you mentioned using a skimmer. Can you explain those two items more?

    What does #5 mean? 'unused Co2 is almost immediately gassed out.'
    And #7 with #8 - you're saying as long as you are injecting air somehow - there seems to be enough CO2 to supply sufficient algae growth without (or at least far less) bicarbonate conversion/absorption. - indicating that any functional CO2 injection on a system already injecting indoor air bubbles would really only be useful for stimulating extra growth... which may or may not be worth the effort (still to be determined). ?

    Edit: ok - i think I made a mistake referencing the waterfall scrubber. That was someone elses - been reading too many lately!! all running together. Yours was typical slotted pipe ATS, right?
    Last edited by shorty; 11-05-2012 at 03:31 PM. Reason: mistake..

  4. #164
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    Actually ran my screen with DIY Co2, but then the slot pipe and top of the screen got all blocked up with bacterial slime, so went back to using air only. Don't get oxygen bubbles going up the screen any more because I turn the scrubber off for about 20 seconds a day to get rid of the oxygen bubbles (as I found these may have slowed photosynthesis). I'm using a skimmer to make use of the sugars that the algae naturally produces (like manual carbon dosing). Now have put a screen inside my skimmer and feeding it with Co2 to see if I can grow and skim out some of this slime as an experiment. With regard to ALK consumption, it's zero or near it, and I get a lot of algae growing, so have concluded that air is good enough.

  5. #165
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    The slime is probably diatoms; CO2 would not grow bacteria; they need oxygen.

  6. #166
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    Im still kinda new to the latest on scrubbers... So not 100% following. But based on what SM said - just preventing the air bubbles may have solved that slime issue? Why would air bubbles reduce photosynthesis?.. Blocking light as you said before? Doesn't that kind of contradict the reported results of the UAS design?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by shorty View Post
    Why would air bubbles reduce photosynthesis?.. Blocking light as you said before? Doesn't that kind of contradict the reported results of the UAS design?
    Oxygen - not air.

  8. #168
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    Quick update - now that I am putting Co2 into my skimmer instead of the ATS screen, it's a lot easier to control the amount that's in the water. I have increased my minimum pH set point to 8.0 and this seems to have stopped the slime growing in the ATS slot pipe. However, now I have changed the way I clean the screen (with algae continuously growing), the pH rarely gets that low, even with the DIY co2 generator pumping in continuously.

  9. #169

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    Garf, you think you can throw up a picture of your screen in action? I would like to see the amount of bubbles you are putting on the screen compared to mine.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by WannaRace View Post
    Garf, you think you can throw up a picture of your screen in action? I would like to see the amount of bubbles you are putting on the screen compared to mine.
    Well I've tried, not sure how helpful they'll be though. I take it your still losing lots of ALK.

    And sump

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