noob needs help correcting previous owners neglect on 27g hex reef tank

[dthorn]

A few months ago I purchased my first reef tank, a 27g hex running over 8 years. The previous owner used tap water and had a burned out pc light for who knows how long. There was a ball of gha so big it would make all the turf algae scrubber owners jealous. Has a deep sand bed, 40lbs lr, and fluval 204 running basic fw setup. Phosphates were off the charts on api test kit and nitrates were 160ppm.

New to saltwater, I have been changing 7g a week hoping for problems to correct themselves. After 3 months, I had nitrates at 20 and phosphates down to 2ppm. Then they shot back up after I zapped a few hydroids and mushrooms crowding other corals. Last I checked nitrates up to 80ppm, and phosphates between 1 and 2. Recently I added chemipure elite to the fluval 204 and polyfilter. Tomorrow's wc I'll be adding purigen by seachem and I'm slowly removing ceramic rings from the filter. I was hoping this combo would eliminate all my problems, but after reading 20 pages of your 2008 blog on the bucket waterfall systems, I am very interested in the [scrubber] concept.

Today I discovered your hang on version now for sale and the price and unobtrusiveness of the design seems like it could be a great solution to my problems. I do however have a few questions from all the info I have floating around in my head after all my reading. Will this unit be enough for my tank. I was prepared to attempt to build one above the tank due to the suggestion that lots of copepods would flow into the tank with the bucket version; is this [upflow] version still releasing them into the tank? You also said led lighting may not be dependable, will this unit be as effective as one running on cfl bulbs with a waterfall system? Also, was thinking if I did a waterfall system I could use my canister output for flow.

Another question about the red light showing through, will I notice it inside the tank at night with my blues on. I run an ai vega led light that looks incredible day and night. I know I won't notice the red during the day, but I don't want it to affect appearance at night. I have a few reds in my display light, so I could turn one on tonight at 1% to see, but I expect that would be much different and would probably look bad.

Also, can I continue to run my canister with purigen and chemipure. I have leathers in a mixed reef mostly lps and some zoas. The tank is somewhat crowded so I fear the possibility of chemical warfare. This topic hasn't been covered by the makers of purigen, which is supposed to completely replace carbon and make water clearer than any other product or device on the market(supposedly, but many people on forums have had trouble with bleaching corals after adding to fast due to increased clarity boosting available light drastically). Also, the topic of coral warefare isn't mentioned when discussing turf scrubbers as stand alone filtration and some still fear it affecting water color and clarity. If it will not harm the processes of the unit you sell, I would think the purigen would be a good aid to it, but I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Also, as crowded as my tank is I will surely have to get a bigger one in the not to distant future. I am somewhat confused on the new way to size turf scrubbers based on feeding because I don't use any cubes. One mature ocellaris clown, a small flasher wrasse, a p. Firefish, and a zebra striped dartfish fed a small pinch of new life spectrum pellets 4-6 days a week. 30 drops of kent microvert once a week for corals and just got marine snow to alternate with the kent food. I'm really new to all this, but know I have excess nutrients so the weekly feeding and really light fish feeding is just one of the ways I am trying to fight my problem. But I really don't know where to put my system in a measurement of food. Hopefully you can help.

I'm thinking out of convenience and budget, that I'll try your unit either way, but still would love to get some personal input from the guy that started the trend towards turf algae scrubbers. Also, I have read in many places that skimmers don't work on nano tanks nor can I afford a decent one anyways. Being a hex tank with no room underneath, sumps and fuges aren't really a convenient option. I spent more money on this tank and livestock in 3 months than I have on my 55g cichlid tank in 8 years. This is half my problem, I am out of money and still need important things like a back up power supply and an engagement ring to keep my girlfriend from noticing that I spend all my money on the fish tank. You can see it at www.youtube.com/dbarter8872

Since taking the video I've added some clove polyps, two different blastos, an acan, a daisy, and several zoos, not to mention arguably the coolest light money can buy and got mine from one of the first shipments to come from the factory. I tend to talk a lot so hopefully you can get through all this without getting too bored. I think that's about it for now as far as questions go. Hopefully I can become another one of your success stories. As my lighting(all led fresh and salt), mixed cichlids, and mixed reef demonstrate, I love breaking rules and being different. This is a much different approach to filtration and algae control, that is easily ten times cheaper than all the bells and whistles of a skimmer/fuge/sump combo and probably even better on nano tanks like mine than bigger tanks. Might just be a way to blow another 60 bucks plus shipping to PA on my tank, but I'm a born salesman and not immune to a good presentation. You already have me sold, thanks to all of the time you have devoted not only to your passion for scrubbers but also to helping others. I've seen the recognition others have given you for your trouble, but i'd still like to say it again. Thank you for all the time in effort you put into all the stuff I've read in so many different places. You do a phenominal job of covering every detail in such a way that anyone can understand and relate to. People are right that you are too worried about the people with negative views but I understand that it only comes from being passionate about what you believe in. Thanks again and I will look forward to hearing back from you as soon as possible so that I can place my order.

I don't think this applies to me now and I may have just missed it somehow, but it would be great if you decided to produce another plug and play model somewhere between your hang on model and turbo's high end acrylic model. Maybe a dressed up version of your original bucket system, as you mentioned somewhere it could be easily shipped right in the bucket itself. I hope you're going to tell me that for my system the hang on model you offer should be more than sufficient to remove my immediate problem as well as the period of excess nutrients leeching out of the lr, and maybe even sufficient for the 56g I'm considering in the next year or so.

I do worry that this [HOG.5] model might be more effective at proving the theory than being a stand alone filtration system leading to building or purchasing a larger system. That isn't a huge concern though, because as you compare scrubbers to what is natural. The simple perspective on why a closed system is so different is because nature offers so many different processes all working together in infinite ways. There is no way one product or process can replace that. Even stand alone, a scrubber is still working with the lr, sand bed(if not bb), currents, etc. Like I said I like to talk alot , and might have a slight tendancy to overanalyze everything. Will be looking forward to a responce!

Sincerely,
D

[SantaMonica]

Welcome... and glad you like the info so far.

Your main problem right now is you don't have much export, unless you change a lot of Polyfilters. Waterchanges don't do much, and are very hard to do, compared to doing nothing which is what I prefer to do. Here's some short answers...

Scrubber or not:

Stop the coral food dosing; those corals don't need it, and it's adding a lot of nutrients.
Leave any GHA in the display, if there still is any; it will help filtering.
Remove the chemipure, purigen, canister, all ceramic rings, and anything else that traps particles. You don't want "clear" water in a real reef, nor trapped particles which add more nutrients. Your rocks and sand will do all the ammonia filtering.

If you add a scrubber:

LEDs are fine.
Yes copepods go into the tank.
You probably would need two HOG.5 units, and clean one each week. After a few weeks when the nutrients come down, you can increase the feeding.

The red light is going to depend on what you build or what you buy. The HOG.5 will have a red ring of light around the edge of the filter, and a very dull red light about 3" around the filter at night; farther than that and it is pitch black. I have one on a 10g and a 2g, and most of the tank is dark at night; you can't see the fish unless they swim within 3" of the filter.

There of course will be other versions available in the future, but not this year.

Hope that helps.

[Garf]

Dthorn - you say you've added more stuff since making the vid! Where did you put it, that tank is packed. How do you get on cleaning the glass with all the corals so close ? Welcome btw

[dthorn]

This will be my third time trying to post a reply it keeps telling me I don't have permission then all the stuff I typed gets lost. Hopefully it's just the quick reply function or I might give up. I ordered one hog.5 unit, hopefully in stock. Hopefully one unit will at least be enough to get nitrates manageable. I plan to keep the trash can running with chemipure elite/purigen/poly filter as I'm convinced I still need these things for water clarity(for my pleasure not the corals'), and to help protect from coral warfare. With weekly cleanings and water changes I feel the benefits out weigh the down sides. Also, in your older posts, before selling units, you said keeping these products for good measure isn't a bad idea. My question was more concerning whether or not any of these products could be detrimental to the performace of the hog.5 model and if so in what way(s). Due to my budget, I can only afford one right now so I'll see how it does before deciding if I need another one or if I can start removing other products.

Yes garth, it is a pretty crowded tank, but that's the way I like them. Maybe not ideal for livestock, but given proper circumstances, I've always got away with it with minimal casualties. I also have 3 dozen cichlids in my 55g average size about 4". I'm also filtering 720g/hr to carry that load. Wc's maybe 3 times a year at best, haven't changed flters in nearly 3 years in twin biowheel and still look new, only changed the media in canister once in the two years I've owned it. Cleaning the glass in the 27g was nearly impossible with a blade, but just got a mag float(works great but not much better at tight spaces than blade) and a two fishes nano mag(awesome product about 2" square and not much thicker than a credit card fits everywhere. The real challenge is keeping everything where I put it, a pin cushion urchin came with the tank. My daughter named him spike, but should've named him bulldozer, cause he knocks over everything big and small superglued or not. Found my frogspawn upside down on my toadstool the other day, not good. On the plus side, ever since my toadstool appears different atnight. Instead of polyps disappearing all together at night, now they look like thick bumps and neon green. My guess is that it's ready to attack in case it happens again. Honestly, I got in way over my head way too fast. Always looking at the plus side... if I hadn't jumped in so fast and spent so much, I wouldn't be taking it anywhere near as seriously as I do and I probably would have failed miserably. I need to get a new video added to youtube. The clove polyp and daisy I added are about the size of a baseball, but not as tall. A multicolored micro polyp colony about the same size, two different blastos and an acan about the size of a golf ball, and two other zoa colonies about the same size. I have a need for immediate gratification, so buying a few tiny frags and waiting a few years for them to grow wasn't an option. More like fill the tank to the max(might be able to squeeze in couple more small things yet), then when problems from crowding begin to appear buy a bigger tank(considering a 56g in the spring... I know it will still be full that's how I like it). I need the full look of an sps tank, but don't have the budget or background for that. Train wrecks are never fun, but watching one happen in slow motion while trying to affect the outcome can be loads of fun. This statement should be my signature but I'll forget it before I hit send. I have lots of fun watching my 4 inch africans try to pick on my 7 inch electric blue jack dempsey from south america. Also, being so different from the rest of the fish makes the entire group of fish look more unique. Oh, and did I mention I like to talk a lot. I better quit for now I might just lose all this for the third time!

[SantaMonica]

If having posting problems, post one paragraph at a time. Or, write on a notepad first, then copy it.

Is your glass 1/4" or smaller? That's what the magnet version is made for.

You can keep things running, but they don't remove nutrients (except polyfilters). When they trap particles, however, it adds nutrients.