How long did you run your pellets and maybe your tumble was too much all the people I know are running them and have not seen a crash and I been running them and yet seen a negative effect im about to start using the pearls since they are marine certified and are also bio degradable. Also maybe your skimmer was too small one rule is to run a bigger skimmer im running a 300gallon skimmer on a 185.Originally Posted by Ace25
Have you not figured a way round this problem Ace, there must be one surely. Like I said earlier, I have zero experience but perhaps not running at full bore, would be a starting point. Saw a post you made earlier that you were running without a skimmer cup (may be in a different time frame). Don't think I'm dissin scrubbers, wouldn't be without mine now, but there are other methods which may compliment scrubbers.
Big skimmers are a myth when it comes to bio-pellets. Any skimmer will do and they only work for a short time. AdvancedAquarist proved that.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
Which leads to the question: Is the bacteria that is skimmable good or bad? If good, wouldn't you want to leave it in the tank? Is the bacteria left behind good or bad?It is likely a significant observation that there is a floor in aquarium water bacteria populations that skimming will not breach. Perhaps in both water sources, the SJ 55 naïve tank water and the KSF modified (or not) tank water, there appears to be two functionally distinct populations of bacteria; one that is susceptible to bubble-based removal, and one that is not. What is this functional difference, as far as the skimmer is concerned? An earlier publication describes the limitations of bubble-based mechanisms in scrubbing TOC from aquarium water (Feldman, 2009). The argument forwarded in that case may very well apply here as well. It is plausible that the requirement for hydrophobic patches on particles (i.e., bacteria, TOC molecules or clusters; refer to Bacterial Surface Charge and Protein Skimming, Section 1.2 above) that must be met for successful bubble-based extraction may only apply to some but not all of the aquarium water column bacteria (approximately 28-39%, by our studies). Thus, there may be some discrimination by the skimmer based upon bacteria surface properties. In addition, some but not all bacteria form multicellular clumps (flocs) that may be susceptible to foam-based extraction based upon simple buoyancy and not bubble-surface chemistry; once again, this physical process constitutes a basis for selecting between different bacteria types. So, the bottom line appears to be that some but not all bacteria can be removed by protein skimming.
First time I ran pellets for 6 months.. crash happened at 2 months but I 'stuck with it' to see if the tank would recover, by month 6 I had a lovely tank of white sticks. Second time I went 30 days and had several corals die. In the 'modded' TLF reactor with a maxijet 1200 the pellets would clog in under 24 hours, in the BRS reactor they would clog in about 3 days run off my return pump. First attempt I used 1/2 recommended dosage, second attempt I used 1/4 recommended dosage. Both times I used pellets caused my ATS screen to turn to mush also. I came to the same conclusion as the guy in the video, without a way to control the bacteria populations, it isn't a viable method, and up until the recent recirc reactors you had to push a ton of flow through them just to keep them suspended.
I am not against carbon dosing in general, I actually had great success when I dosed vodka (and I believe it was because I had control over the bacteria populations because it was dependent on my daily liquid carbon dosing), I just don't think the current method that most people use today for using pellets is correct.
Ya Garf, the solution is in the video above.Use one of those and just have the flow so slow it is just a steady drip in the sump and it may work good with an ATS. The key is to be able to test the water and adjust the flow so you do not 'bottom out' the N/P in the tank. If you can control that (which you couldn't with old bio-pellet reactors), you will be good.
I been runnin 400 ml and have not had any problems yet. And for the skimmer I can tell you that when I was running a smaller skimmer I use to see bio film floating around the tank all the time ever since I upgrade to the bigger skimmer I have not seen them. I think you just gave up on it like the guys that have given up on the scrubber. I will show the progress on my tank and will post here instead of my other threadhiBig skimmers are a myth when it comes to bio-pellets. Any skimmer will do and they only work for a short time. AdvancedAquarist proved that.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
Which leads to the question: Is the bacteria that is skimmable good or bad? If good, wouldn't you want to leave it in the tank? Is the bacteria left behind good or bad?
First time I ran pellets for 6 months.. crash happened at 2 months but I 'stuck with it' to see if the tank would recover, by month 6 I had a lovely tank of white sticks. Second time I went 30 days and had several corals die. In the 'modded' TLF reactor with a maxijet 1200 the pellets would clog in under 24 hours, in the BRS reactor they would clog in about 3 days run off my return pump. First attempt I used 1/2 recommended dosage, second attempt I used 1/4 recommended dosage. Both times I used pellets caused my ATS screen to turn to mush also. I came to the same conclusion as the guy in the video, without a way to control the bacteria populations, it isn't a viable method, and up until the recent recirc reactors you had to push a ton of flow through them just to keep them suspended.
I am not against carbon dosing in general, I actually had great success when I dosed vodka (and I believe it was because I had control over the bacteria populations because it was dependent on my daily liquid carbon dosing), I just don't think the current method that most people use today for using pellets is correct.
Ya Garf, the solution is in the video above.
That's not PaulB, that's Reefkeeper2. PaulB is another RC user that has a reef tank that is like 40 years old and his has a trough scrubber along the back of the tank. Just for clarification. I do not think he has ever won TOTM
Floyd yea im not talking about the paul b with the 40 year old tank im talking about reefkeeper 2 which his name is also paul b (paul brune)
I am a huge proponent for the use of bacteria to filter a reef tank, I just think there are better ways to do it than the current method of using bio-pellets. I know why my tank crashed from using them. It stripped my tank clean, lead to my SPS corals dying which put food back into the water, stripped again, led to my ATS screen dying, and the cycle continued until there was nothing left to die. That is the yo-yo effect I speak of and this is caused by not being able to control the bacteria. FWIW, I run a Bubble Magus Nac 7 skimmer on a 75G cube tank, currently I don't use the cup on it though but did when I used pellets.
Every tank is different, this is why there will always be a certain amount of success stories for any method. I have been in this hobby long enough to see more bad things happen than good with the current method of using bio-pellets. You may be one of the 30% that has success and that is great. I certainly don't wish failure on anyone in this hobby because failure usually means death to some animal and for that reason and seeing both the amount of success and failures, I just can't recommend using bio-pellets in a normal reactor.
I have talked about a few different methods in various threads on here. Since I am a 'light junkie' I am geared more towards finding out which bacteria likes which type of spectrum so I can make a reactor and employ the use of proper lighting to entice the bacteria to live in a certain location within the system. We know bacteria like to colonize around both the upper and lower extreme visual spectrums, 400 and 700nm, if a 'good' bacteria has a preference for the 400nm side then I can use that light on a reactor in order to entice the bacteria to stay colonized in one location. I am thinking of a reactor with a piece of bio-pellet sheet, super low flow, and proper light would make an excellent bacteria reactor. Same concept we use with algae scrubbers, we use the screen and proper spectrum to entice the algae to live in a location of our choosing instead of the entire system.
That BP sheet looks very interesting
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