Cant fight algae in dt

[kotlec]

I would vote for this theory day and night.

What best way to control ammonia ?
Possibly two dead snails caused ammonia spike and started all that carousel . On the other hand ammonia spike should be over long ago and my N and P are always low.

[cdm2012]

I would vote for this theory day and night.

What best way to control ammonia ?
Possibly two dead snails caused ammonia spike and started all that carousel . On the other hand ammonia spike should be over long ago and my N and P are always low.

Any spike in ammonia is deadly. When it spikes I'm sure it could kill off something else you can see or can't see, and this could cause more spikes, causing a carousel, as you put nicely. N and P would be low if algae is growing, either on the screen, or in the dt. It could be camouflaging what's really going on. But it is only a theory

[kotlec]

Randys take on subject :

Many organisms take up ammonia directly for use in making the proteins and other biomolecules they need to build tissues. Algae, both micro and macro, for example, readily use ammonia from the water. In cases where they are exposed to both nitrate and ammonia as nitrogen sources, many preferentially take up ammonia.6 When using nitrate, many of the pertinent biochemical pathways require the organism to reduce nitrate to ammonia before using it, so taking up ammonia makes sense.6 It has not been established in a reef aquarium setting, however, what portion of the macroalgae's nitrogen uptake is ammonia and what fraction is nitrate.

[cdm2012]

What best way to control ammonia ?

Vinegar is known to neutralize ammonia (vinegar has low ph, ammonia has extremely high). If the ammonia theory proves to be viable, dosing a small amount of vinegar might gradually do the trick.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Vinegar is known to neutralize ammonia (vinegar has low ph, ammonia has extremely high). If the ammonia theory proves to be viable, dosing a small amount of vinegar might gradually do the trick.

Oh wow, you learn something new every day. This may be the reason why people who do vinegar dosing see a drop in scrubber growth production.

Granted that this effect would not be consistent throughout the day, because the vinegar would have to be there when the ammonia was produced (either in a single event i.e. urine, or consistently throughout the day via digestion) but that may explain a few things

[cdm2012]

Oh wow, you learn something new every day. This may be the reason why people who do vinegar dosing see a drop in scrubber growth production.

Granted that this effect would not be consistent throughout the day, because the vinegar would have to be there when the ammonia was produced (either in a single event i.e. urine, or consistently throughout the day via digestion) but that may explain a few things

This also may explain what SantaMonica says about algae build up on the glass of the aquarium. Ammonia is hitting it and this is activating the algae spores in the water and they are attaching themselves to the glass becoming common algae. (Just a thought I guess)

A nice experiment might be, remove an area of algae that is on a piece of live rock. Take a turkey baster with a very small amount of distilled white vinegar and blast that area where the algae was. And if there is any traces of ammonia leaking out it would be neutralized and the vinegar would then serve as a carbon source for some new bacteria that could then colonize in that area, and maybe it would start working on whatever is still decaying in the rock in that area.

I certainly would NOT recommend doing an entire piece of live rock at one time though, nor should you dose it on a regular basis. I believe too much vinegar would affect the algae scrubber adversely. But if this works, you could do this same process again in another area at another time. Again, only theory!!

[kotlec]

What are vinegar dosing guidelines ?

[cdm2012]

What are vinegar dosing guidelines ?

If you have an algae scrubber I wouldn't recommend dosing with vinegar on a regular basis. As Floyd pointed out this has shown to slow algae growth on the scrubber itself. But, perhaps small amounts directed at the algae in the dt may prove to be beneficial at ridding nuisance algae.

However, there are guidelines available for dosing such as: Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

[kotlec]

There I see two scenarios.
1. Vinegar destroys algae food and it stops growing. But that is why we keep it in first place - remove nutrients and not to farm algae.
2. Vinegar interacts with some algae growing mechanisms directly and algae stops uptaking nutrients and stops growing. That's what we would like to avoid happening to our screens (good for DT though).

Now hard part - to determine is it #1 or #2.
If Randy Holmes is right and algae prefer amonia to nitrates :

In cases where they are exposed to both nitrate and ammonia as nitrogen sources, many preferentially take up ammonia.

then it is more likely #1

Your thoughts

[cdm2012]

There I see two scenarios.
1. Vinegar destroys algae food and it stops growing. But that is why we keep it in first place - remove nutrients and not to farm algae.
2. Vinegar interacts with some algae growing mechanisms directly and algae stops uptaking nutrients and stops growing. That's what we would like to avoid happening to our screens (good for DT though).

Now hard part - to determine is it #1 or #2.
If Randy Holmes is right and algae prefer amonia to nitrates :


then it is more likely #1

Your thoughts

From my research, algae AND algae spores prefer ammonia but your first concern is the algae spores. The spores have to have ammonia to form. So, then you would want to eliminate the ammonia. Regular algae can survive on N and P if it doesn't have ammonia to consume.