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Thread: Sm: need suggestion

  1. #1

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    Sm: need suggestion

    Friend of mine has 180, and a week ago I tested po4 (2.5 on checker) and well over 100 nitrates. My Hannah checker only reads up to 2.5.

    We did a 60 gallon water change two days ago (1/3 volume) and nitrates were still high, and po4 was still 2.5 ( who knows could be 5 ppm or 50, correct?

    My friend wants to by one of your systems, which do you recommend? He has seen my diy drop nitrates to zero, as well as phosphate as well. He just doesnt like my set up with cfl bulbs exposed to water. Also, would you try really hard.to get nutrients down first (water changes, phosgaurd) or would you just let recommended scrubber do the work?

  2. #2
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    One trick to test high numbers is to dilute the water with rodi or distilled water first (add same amount), which will reduce nutrients by half and make them easier to test for.

    Water changes won't do much, for long, because the nutrients are mostly in the rocks and sand, and the water change is just once. His just seems like there has been no nutrient export for many years (skimmers don't export nutrients; only food particles).

    For his situation, the large system (and probably lots of rock) has a lot of phosphate stored in the rock, so will need large scrubbers and probably several of them so they can be cleaned alternately. And the high nutrients in the water will grow black scrubber growth and thus will need the strongest light possible in the scrubber so as to grow green sooner, although even with strong light it may still grow black for quite a while as nutrients come out (high nutrients grow very dark proteins).

    So I would recommend what some others with big systems have done: Do a combination of big-space scrubbers (SURF4x or SURF8x), and big surface-area scrubbers (HOG3x). When the growth starts out black, it will be easier to toothbrush off of the large Green-Grabber surface of the HOG, which has more surface area than strings. And one growth turns into hair, then the SURF, which has more strings than surface, will fill in and really start pulling down nutrients.

    Once the scrubbers are installed, you can see what kinds of growth starts. If completely black, then yes you can do all sorts of other filtering to temporarily help growth attach to the scrubbers. However some people start out with thick scrubber growth right away even though nutrients are high like his, and in this case you would not need to do anything extra.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
    One trick to test high numbers is to dilute the water with rodi or distilled water first (add same amount), which will reduce nutrients by half and make them easier to test for.

    Water changes won't do much, for long, because the nutrients are mostly in the rocks and sand, and the water change is just once. His just seems like there has been no nutrient export for many years (skimmers don't export nutrients; only food particles).

    For his situation, the large system (and probably lots of rock) has a lot of phosphate stored in the rock, so will need large scrubbers and probably several of them so they can be cleaned alternately. And the high nutrients in the water will grow black scrubber growth and thus will need the strongest light possible in the scrubber so as to grow green sooner, although even with strong light it may still grow black for quite a while as nutrients come out (high nutrients grow very dark proteins).

    So I would recommend what some others with big systems have done: Do a combination of big-space scrubbers (SURF4x or SURF8x), and big surface-area scrubbers (HOG3x). When the growth starts out black, it will be easier to toothbrush off of the large Green-Grabber surface of the HOG, which has more surface area than strings. And one growth turns into hair, then the SURF, which has more strings than surface, will fill in and really start pulling down nutrients.

    Once the scrubbers are installed, you can see what kinds of growth starts. If completely black, then yes you can do all sorts of other filtering to temporarily help growth attach to the scrubbers. However some people start out with thick scrubber growth right away even though nutrients are high like his, and in this case you would not need to do anything extra.
    SM-

    You are correct, it was a fish only, with a lot of fish, for at least ten years before converting it to a reef tank. One option in my mind is to toss rock, and buy new, however, he does have some coral established in there.

    I relayed all of this over to him, and for the time being, he wishes to purchase just one scrubber for now, (I myself advocated for two) and eventually add a second. (from what I have gathered, buying just the one will keep his house livable, if you catch my drift)

    Knowing that, knowing he does have 2 liters of phosgard on hand to assist, which one scrubber would you go with? He will be ordering it this week. Thanks

  4. #4

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    Or, I can put it another way, if he can spend 600 and still keep the peace in his house, which scrubber, or scrubbers would you start with?

    Thanks again
    Last edited by saltykid85; 06-07-2015 at 05:31 PM. Reason: error

  5. #5
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    Then I'd say 2 X HOG3.

    If you think he'll stay on top of cleaning the black off of one every 3 or 4 days, then the other will keep going in the mean time, and they will average 6 or 8 days growth each, which is about all that black slime can hang on for.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
    One trick to test high numbers is to dilute the water with rodi or distilled water first (add same amount), which will reduce nutrients by half and make them easier to test for.
    You have to dilute with fresh saltwater or saltwater from a tank with a known zero value. You can't dilute SW with FW for a test kit that is based on SW.

    Hanna checker may or may not get screwed up by this but in general it's a good idea to just dilute SW with SW and be safe.

  7. #7

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    well he stated to me he has ordered what appears to be the surf 4x. at the end of the day its his decision, not mine. I suppose it will come sometime this week, is this something anyone can really install, or should I be there to assist?

  8. #8
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    Just make sure he starts with low-power (1 plug, not both) for a week, then both plugs. 18 hours to start, 22 later.

  9. #9

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    Thank you, I will be sure of that.

    Off topic for a second, my nitrates and phosphate have been zero for the past two weeks, heavily fed system. It took about 6 weeks total to drop from 1 ppm po4 and 70 no3 to get to zer0. I am very delighted.

    I started keeping sps about two months ago. I test weekly, and my alk and cal have been stable. Over the past ten days (two points I checked) my alk was gone from 10.5 to 8, and my calcium seems to be the same.

    I have never dosed anything before, what would you do to correct if anything. Also, I am using instant ocean, and from what I have gathered, the alk is about 10 on it. Would a 20 percent water change, keep it hovering around that 8 mark (if that is what you suggest)

    Thank you

  10. #10
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    8 is good, but strong scrubbing can lower it further. If so, baking soda dissolved in RODI will bring it right back up without needing to water change.

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