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Thread: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

  1. #1

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    Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Well, time to try again. Hopefully the third time is the charm. Bought the acrylic and components, so starting this long weekend.
    Any last minute advice would be great.
    Thanks.

    # FUTURE TARGET TANK:
    200g main reef tank. Moderately loaded, but well fed.
    75g sump, always dark, with some live rock.
    Desire strong ATS filtering. No skimmer or other filter.
    Testable on current 65g system

    # BASIC CONCEPT:
    Build a dual-scrubber system. Two identical modules.
    Vertical type, double sided. Center screen with lighting on each side.
    Each would be very much like a tall SM100. Same width, similar construction, but twice as high.
    Screens = Two x 20" x 14" = 560, dual sided = 1120 sq in of surface total.
    LED lighting. High efficiency LEDs, spectrum optimized, about 60W each = 120W. (Roughly equivalent to 300W T5)
    Two 850 GPH (effective) pumps from tank up to scrubbers, gravity return to tank.

    ------ Gory details follow -----

    # BACKGROUND:
    Revision 1 was a small undersized test setup. It was one sided, and nearly, but not completely vertical.
    That was largely to test the concept.
    It worked, but being small, did not do that much.

    Revision 1-B was an LED lighting swap.
    I replaced the CFL with an LED setup.
    Worked OK, about the same as CFL, Less power, same results.

    Revision 2 was a large semi-horizontal build.
    Going to an ATS setup for real.
    The major driving factor in a horizontal build was space, and eliminating cost of extra pump.
    Protein skimmer was turned off. Filter socks removed. Feedings increased.
    First lighting setup was 1/2 CFL and 1/2 LED. Subsequently switched to all LED.
    This worked fairly well. Happy corals. Nitrates and Phosphates at 0.
    Some of the main tank algae is hurting, but not really dying off.

    The problem is, a horizontal build just does not seem efficient enough to out-compete
    the algae in the main tank. So I want to build a vertical.

    Another new factor is that I have approval (from wife) of going to a 200g system. YIPPEE!
    (From 65g)
    So obviously, I have to build something a lot bigger.

    # ATS TYPE:
    Definitely plan a two sided dual vertical system.
    Two identical independent systems.
    . Separate screens, pumps, everything.
    . Great for redundancy.
    . Allows single smaller unit test on current tank.
    . A bit more expensive, and more things to fail.
    . Uses a smaller pump for each.
    Two sided vertical.
    With LED, the best energy point trade-off is a single screen with lighting on both sides.
    The pump power is a large percentage, and LED lighting outputs only one direction.
    Having tried a horizontal that just never was quite efficient enough, I plan to go vertical.

    # ATS SCREEN SIZE:
    Standard SM100 = 100x2 = 200 sq in surface area.
    Very strong for 50g. Good for 100g
    Basic = 1 inch/gallon. Good = 2X. Strong = 4X
    Target a 200g tank + 75g sump = 275g
    Best to have 300*4 = 1200 sq in
    /2 sided, /2 unit = 300 sq in per
    Ok to have less, 275 * 3 = perhaps 825 sq in
    /2 sided, /2 unit = 206 sq in per

    # ATS PUMP:
    DUAL. Two required : Quiet One 4000
    Most energy efficient at rates I need.
    Assume 2.5' of head, so 850 gph
    Total for 2 = 1700 GPH
    Pumps to be located in bucket of fresh water with heat dissipation. Eliminates heat transfer to tank.
    Gives a 6X filter turnover ratio.

    # ATS SCREEN WIDTH:
    Each one = 850 GPH
    Target 35-40 GPH/inch
    A good value = 20 inches wide = 42.5 GPH/in
    Total for 2 = 40 inch wide

    # ATS SCREEN HEIGHT:
    1200 / 2 / 40 = 15
    1000 / 2 / 40 = 12.5
    No real reason to skimp on height, other than adding head to pump pressure.
    Current target = 14"
    This gives 14 * 20 * 2 * 2 = 1120 sq in of surface area.

    # LIGHTING:
    This will be LED based. N * (1X Blue + 2X Deep-Red + 1X warm-white) mixture.
    Using modern LEDs, algae spectrum optimized. Seems to be about 4X more efficient than CFL, or 3X versus good T5.
    A standard SM100 = 100W of T5 with quality individual bulb reflectors
    So 4X that = 400W
    Standard CFL target is 1 watt / gallon = 275W.
    So preliminary target = 120W of LED power. Since a 30W set is fairly easy to build.
    Easy to add more later.

    # POWER USAGE:
    Pumps = 2 x 50W = 100W, 24hrs/day = $224 per year
    LED Lighting = 120W, 16 hrs $180 per year. (Standard CFL would be $600)

  2. #2

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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    You are making me want to build a new revision now.

    Still waiting on my 680nm led tick tock tick tock

    "This will be LED based. N * (1X Blue + 2X Deep-Red + 1X warm-white) mixture."

    Specifics please. (type, power, driver etc...)

    Good luck

  3. #3
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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Standard SM100 = 100x2 = 200 sq in surface area.
    SM100 = 100. That's why it's a 100.

  4. #4

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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMonica
    Standard SM100 = 100x2 = 200 sq in surface area.
    SM100 = 100. That's why it's a 100.
    I was using true surface area (which has to include both sides/surfaces), not screen size.
    Assuming it is 20" x 5" x 2 sides. That = 100 sq in screen size, so 200 sq in in surface area.
    Or maybe I am really confused and it is much smaller than I thought.

  5. #5

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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Quote Originally Posted by inkidu
    "This will be LED based. N * (1X Blue + 2X Deep-Red + 1X warm-white) mixture."
    Specifics please. (type, power, driver etc...)
    I will build 4 "lights." One for each surface. (2 sides x 2 modules)
    Each is a copy of what I am using right now.

    Each "light" will be 30W, and include:
    8 x Deep Red LedEngin. LZ1-00R205
    - Running 700 mA (low power), 2.9Vf = 2W each
    - About 100 lumens, but not very accurate for deep red.
    - About 400mW radiant flux.
    - Peak wavelength around 660 nm.
    4 x Blue LedEngin. LZ1-00B205
    - Running 700 mA (low power), 3.4Vf = 2.4W each
    - About 50 lumens.
    - Peak wavelength around 450 nm.
    3 x Warm-White. (Still uncertain what brand. Probably Cree)
    - Running 700 mA (low power), 3.6Vf = 2.5W each
    - About 50 lumens.
    - Peak wavelength around 450 nm.
    Driver = LPC-35-700
    - Capable of 35W.
    - Drives 700mA, 9-48V

  6. #6

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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Thanks for the info.

    Maybe you are aware but I will mention it,

    Cree is coming out with the XM-L soon. (couple months maybe less???)

    160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    Whether a warm white will be immediately available is another thing.

    Hope this helps.

  7. #7
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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Scrubber "size" is based on having light on both side of the screen. So 100 needs to be 100, with lights on both sides, which is meant for a 100 gal tank, and with 100 watts fluorescent light for high filtering.

  8. #8

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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Quote Originally Posted by SantaMonica
    Scrubber "size" is based on having light on both side of the screen. So 100 needs to be 100, with lights on both sides, which is meant for a 100 gal tank, and with 100 watts fluorescent light for high filtering.
    Hey, it is your product, so you can name it any way you want.

    I guess I am basically building an RY-500-L. :P
    Perhaps overkill for a 275g system. Oh well, gives me room to expand.

    The reason I am annoyingly pedantic about using the more strict scientific definition of "surface area" is because I did two
    single sided revisions. As such, I had to be careful not to be confused myself, and end up with a half-size scrubber.

  9. #9

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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    Quote Originally Posted by inkidu
    Maybe you are aware but I will mention it, Cree is coming out with the XM-L soon. (couple months maybe less???)
    160 lumens per watt @350 mA Whether a warm white will be immediately available is another thing.
    Wow, had not heard that.
    Those will definitely be going in my main tank.
    (Lighting for a 200g tank is going to be an interesting and expensive project)
    But for the scrubber, the warm-whites are a very small part (20%), and only to cover whatever spectrum the main reds miss,
    so really just going for reasonably-cheap instead.

  10. #10

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    Re: Version 3 ATS : Vertical, LED, bigger

    EDIT

    The led I mentioned.

    http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail. ... 1079100891

    Coming this fall.

    Hope this helps

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