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Hi guys
There is a LED lamp that has been compared to a 150 w metalhalide on severeral tests. Im going to buy santa monicas 100 ATS and was considering using these LEDs what do you think. 4 on each ATS should do the work or perhaps a L60 high power if it comes in a freshwater version. The freshwater version gives 8000 kelvin. could this work?
http://www.fish-street.com/weipro_led_lighting_led-c
http://www.fish-street.com/fish_street_ ... g_in_china
Moby
Led lights that are best for corals and appearance are usually cool white and blue/royal blue while
great for that purpose maybe are not so efficient for growing algae compared to a purpose built led grow light.
While it doesn't look like a bad product, I noticed that the type of led is not mentioned, which could make a big difference.
Also because leds are so directional some light measurements can sometimes be misleading.
While maybe not false a comparison is difficult if you consider that some lights output are more uniform over a larger area while
led if not blended well can vary quite a bit over a given smaller area. The measurement given is only what falls on that tiny sensor.
Most of what I have done so far has been diy leds ( best results from the deep red (660nm), white and blue combo) which could be made to
work with SM scrubber but this would entail diy work.
You would give up the nice sleek design of SM scrubber with some of the aftermarket led grow lights i.e. the kind that
screw into a socket. They are usually those underpowered and inefficient 5mm leds but there are some better ones coming out now.
I will give it some thought and I might be able to come up with a recommendation.
Hope this helps.
Thanks appreciate it. If there is any solution to go low wattage on Santas scrubber then im game.
Agree with the concerns.
Even the freshwater 8K may have too much blue, and not enough red.
The LED efficiency is a big concern as well. While they do not show the exact LED, they do have the count and picture.
Unless I am misreading the questionable english, the L60 version has 120 white , and 60 blue, at 21 Watts.
That is 117 mA per LED. They are clearly 5 mm high power LEDs from that, and the picture.
The problem : Those 5 mm LEDs are half the efficiency or less.
Plus, most of those are 100mA max. So that calculation on 117 mA is a bit scary. Might be overdriven.
Something that saves cost, increases brightness, but seriously affects long term reliability.
Combine that with the bad english....
SUGGESTION:
First, get the SM scrubber going with standard T5 bulbs as recommended.
Two advantages:
- It proves it works and so on.
- It allows more time for new products, or maybe a DIY build.
First off none of this is close to being cheap and I have not explored ugly, for this application, screw in led grow lights,
but you asked. I am far from an expert these are just suggestions.
Also take into consideration that before these leds are barely into there prime years there will be something better.
Very rough draft for one side and please suggestions ( I believe one weakness is spreading out the light a square screen would be easier to setup)
(16) 5 watt deep red ledengin at $11 apiece (shown as a 0) http://www.ledengin.com/products/5wLZ/LZ1-00R205.pdf ($180)
(7) cree xpg at $8 apiece (shown as a " ) http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP-G.pdf ($60)
(1) meanwell cen-100-54 http://www.meanwell.com/search/cen-100/default.htm ($60) (very new but available) 91% eff.
(1) meanwell lplc-18-700 http://www.meanwell.com/search/lplc-18/default.htm ($15)
(1) 24" heatsink (might need to shave down some width) http://www.heatsinkusa.com/storename/he ... 910-3.aspx ($60) shipped
Add say $20 for thermal adhesive pads,wire,some quality diffusion(might be very important for this application and
also might let you use less leds) etc....
Thats in this configuration ......................00"00"00"00"00"00"00"00..... with the xpg slightly above keeping the deep reds spaced all the same
I thought of using the cree xpg because they have a lot of 450 nm blue plus there over the top efficient.
A very approx. total $395 for one side. Plus all the diy ( still much less work than if you would do small leds i.e. 5mm)
WOW
You can make the decision if that even approaches what makes sense.
One problem that I think happens is that people see these kind of lights on ebay and believe there trump up #'s and think they will
work but when it comes to people who have success you must realize that you must go big or it probably won't work.
As far as I know the ledengin deep reds are the only high power deep red leds. Everything else,as far as 660nm, are cheap low amp leds.
One weakness is that is a lot of watts over what it replaces although you might be able to run it less.
A square screen would be easier to diy as far as having a good spread of light.
Hope this helps.
I am confused by the "lot of watts over what it replaces"
My experience so far seems to be that LEDs will use about 1/4 the power of a CFL flood, so maybe 1/2 the power of a T5.
Obviously very rough guesses, but nothing to indicate I would need more power.
What is the size of your screen, and how far away will you be putting those LEDs?
My original 15W version seemed about right for a weak-flow, single sided, 50 sq inch screen, about 4" away.
Grew a bit better than the original 2 x 25W CFL flood lamps. But those had to be moved well back due to weak flow, so not the best comparison.
My current design in progress is a high performance, 50W LED setup, 40 GPH/inch flow, single sided 200 sq inches, about 5" away, optimized spectrum.
My fault rygh I have been taking this some distance from your original post.
He mentioned using leds for a SM scrubber.
Using your thread to talk about my thoughts on leds.
Your setup sounds good waiting to here some results.
Might have mentioned but what drivers are you using for your new leds?
Thanks for any help.
I think diverging from the original post is great. The whole thing is a work in progress.
My new design is changing as well. Maybe this weekend I will write up some detailed stats and pictures.
My driver is a Mean Well LPC-35-700W constant current driver.
So each set = 8 deep red, 4 blue, plus driver, plus some cheap purchased heat sinks = about $150.
An SM-100 would only need 1 set. (50 inches, dual sided)
For my 200 sq in one, it would be $300.
I am also changing my hours from 18/6 to 8/4/8/4. Even the current 15W system seems to be burning the algae a bit.
Let's make this the definition of a "successful" LED scrubber, or any scrubber:
1. Is the only filter. This includes no waterchanges, no vodka/sugar, etc.
2. Keeps N and P unmeasureable continuously, with regular feedings, for months at a time.
This will give a cushion when others try it, and thus it still will be strong enough to work for them. By "others", I mean people who:
Decide that half-size should work just as good as full size.
Let it go a month with no cleaning.
Think that keeping the light 12" away is fine.
Use glass as a screen.
And the one that I see every day: Leave the light on 24 hours.
etc.
If a scrubber cannot keep unmeasureable N and P by itself, and thus it requires other filters or waterchanges for help, then the scrubber is just not strong enough for what it is trying to do.
> Is the only filter.
Well, everyone has a biological filter already. Even a bare tank, but especially the usual reef setup with tons of live rock.
Plus, I feel it is good to run a protein skimmer automatically an hour/two per day, for safety.
> This includes no waterchanges, no vodka/sugar, etc.
No waterchanges is a really bad idea. Getting all the trace dosing just right is very difficult.
This will result in people doing ok for a while, then having various corals and such get oddly sick as various
chemical concentrations get out of whack.
But water changes of 10% per month or so, not 20% per week like some.
Agree with the no vodka/sugar.
> Keeps N and P unmeasureable continuously, with regular feedings, for months at a time.
Agree.
To be precise, maybe best to rank it in 3 categories.
A) Working:
* You get enough green algae growth on your screens to be worth scraping off every week.
Basically, this means the light/flow/screen is good enough for basic functionality.
B) Success:
* N and P unmeasurable.
* No use of chemical filtration, such as carbon, phosban, vodka, sugar, ozone.
* No need for minimized feeding and heavy protein skimming for nutrient reduction.
At this point, you have a nice healthy tank, which is what your really care about.
Fish/Coral should be healthy, well fed, and not chemically stressed.
C) Great success:
* Elimination of all unnatural filtration.
* Limited simple water changes.
* Algae growth in main tank gone, or receding.
Here, you are getting into aesthetics and levels of reduction in maintenance.
Great, but not really required for a healthy tank.
Even my small LED test system brought me to B and most of C.
It also brought me to your idea of success as well, since I did try turning skimmer off, and it was no problem.
But while algae growth has really slowed in the main tank, it is still there, so I
need to make my ATS larger and tune it to really out-compete, before I can consider it a great success.